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https://metzarchive.org/files/original/91f0c72874c61f8581c4ba5150548b74.pdf 86951d311017f4a76b704fb48d78415d PDF Text Text Oral History Interview with Raul Valdez December 7th, 2020 This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity. Burniston​: I thought we might as well introduce ourselves. I’m Mary Margaret and we've been chatting over email a little bit. I'm a senior at UT and I’ve been involved with this class since August now, and we’ve been working with the teachers and community members trying to create a digital archive for Metz, kind of like a community remembrance box for the school. Prakash​: I'm Rishikia, I’m a junior at UT Austin, also in the same class. I think we really wanted to reach out to artists because our section of the project actually works with the Arts and Metz, and we’ve been exploring that we and how those things are interacting together. So it's really great that we get to talk to you and we have a few questions we’d like to ask you. So if you could go ahead and introduce yourself as well Mr. Valdez. Valdez​: My name is Raul Valdez. Would you like me to say anything else besides who I am? Burniston​: We’d love to know a little about where you are from and where you went to school, that sort of stuff. Valdez​: I actually went to Texas A&I and then I went to grad school right where you're at [UT Austin]. I've been working at a lot of schools, all the schools in the east side, and a lot of the other ones in Austin. A lot of them have my projects—I don't say my murals because they were actually done with a whole bunch of help. I’d say there were three hundred kids or right around that number—probably more than that—that helped. And Metz was one of them—the ceiling, especially, in front of the cafeteria. There were about 300 kids that worked on that. And of course I’ve got Murals at Zavala, Sanchez, Brook, and of course there’s also too many all over town, including Cook and places way over there on the other side of town. But really I’ve worked all over town. Burniston​: That’s awesome. So how did you first get involved making Valdez: ​Well it all started when I got this idea of doing a public art. I see people doing a mural, maybe a sculpture, something out of their heads that they wanted to do and put somewhere. And sometimes it was something that people scratch their head and say “what is that thing?” with a sculpture or even some of the murals and things that they did. People wouldn’t relate to them real well. I said I want to do real public art. This was way back in the seventies—74, 75—the real public art. I'm going to go to a place and I'm going to actually do a survey, canvas the 1 �community, get ideas from there, and then use that as a subject matter, and then get people to participate. You know I found out that one of my favorite grades, by the way, is third grade. These guys, they are ready to learn, they're more focused. I've had this kind of experience with multiple grades, but these guys, I can teach him how to render, how to do faces by themselves, and all that. So anyway jumping forward a bunch of years, we did this kind of mural exchange project, the Aztec Cobra Mural Exchange. There was this desire for people to get along, for kids to get to know each other, and hopefully, you know, do something together, which is one of the strong points of having collaborative projects for kids; they actually have a cooperative effort in doing something. They don't have to be artists or anything, I mean anybody can be an artist, and if you don't want to do art they can do the research, or they can make the references, help with some of the labor, but get anybody involved. We even had some of the custodians and teachers involved in the painting. You know anybody can be involved and be a part of it. I was surprised that people would come later, like years later. Now I see old people walk up to me and say “hey, remember me? I was in third grade and I painted with you.” So anyways, they still remember working on a project like that for years. The Aztec/Cobra Mural Exchange was a thing about painting a mural at Sanchez, and then painting one at Metz. Then we had a parade and brought the murals together. We met halfway at a middle school. From there the kids took them [the murals] to their schools on trucks. We unloaded them [the murals] there, and set them up, and then we had a little party. A kid would talk and describe their experiences and all that. I remember one of the reasons or purposes that the kids would describe was “BFF, we’re all best friends forever.” So they gave each other the presents. The mural that’s there in the hallway at Metz was painted at Sanchez. There’s one at Sanchez that was painted at Metz, and it’s bigger, by the way. They painted a really big one there at Metz. And the one that was painted at Sanchez was two panels, I think 8 by 8. It’s a painting of Dolores Huerta, who happens to be a friend of mine. Cesar Chavez—no he’s not in that. You know, Cesar Chavez actually visited the school. This was way back in—what year was it? I don't remember, but they dropped them off with me, and I drove him around town a little bit. I drove him to Metz, where he was going to do a presentation. As soon as he got off, the media was there and everybody stormed him. I was honored to have him ride around with me, and I took him to the school. So anyways, he did a presentation after that. 2 �And then we marched the next day, or two days later I believe. We had a big march. I played the guitar and marched alongside him and played some field songs. I am a blues man, and I used to do Rock back in the old days, but I decided to go in another genre and do field songs and movement songs that they used to do back in those days. It fit right along with what I’ve been doing for so many years. I was always a supporter of the farmworkers and the Chicano movement from the 60s, 70s. So anyway that had a lot to do with trying to inspire, or at least give the kids a sense of pride because, well, I’ll use the term anti-racist, because there is definitely a lot of discouragement to being proud, you know. One of my mottos that I came up with—and it’s on my website—is “it’s impossible to be proud when you don’t know who you are.” That was definitely the case with kids in many cases—most cases—didn’t know who they are, where they came from, because they started learning about Columbus and George Washington. In many cases, they learned nothing about their own background, their own history, and the history of their people and who they really are. I did a lot of presentations. I’d say hundreds of presentations in schools, both in individual classrooms and whole assemblies in the gym or cafeteria with all or most of the kids in school. I remember kids would come to me and say, “Woah mister, that’s who I am! That’s my history! That’s me!” They’d come out all proud, because they’d never heard it, they never got it in the educational environment. Things have gotten a little better, but not enough in many ways, but at least there’s a little more inclusiveness for kids to relate. You know, it’s not all about Columbus. You know, how can you discover a continent when it’s inhabited already? That kind of thing. I’d give them another perspective, and they’d be blown away. So anyway, I did a lot of those things in the 70s mostly, early 70s through the 80s. I kind of slowed down later on. But anyway, I used to do like 40 schools a year. Something like that, I remember it’d be a lot of schools would just invite me, they heard about it, and they’d keep inviting me. So anyway, a lot of that stuff started back then. And the purpose was all there, and I was glad to do it. That’s why I’d ask them for the subject matter, including everybody in the school—teachers, staff, custodians, everybody would get a chance to pitch in and give me their opinions. So anyway, that’s kind of a nutshell of the whole thing. And that’s really the essence of it. The most important things. Burniston: ​Thank you, that’s all really fascinating. I wanted to make sure—I’m not sure if our Zoom meeting is about to cut off. I might have a time limit on my account. I wanted to ask you a little bit more about the ceiling mural before we got cut off. 3 �Valdez: ​Uh oh. It’s not finished. I got a small grant, not a lot of money. A lot of these works were done for very cheap, very cheap. And some some for free. Some for less than free—it actually cost me; I’d sponsor it myself. But I felt so inclined and so motivated to complete these projects that I didn’t even care if there was money or not. I got lucky later on. People were actually offering me money and actually inviting me and asking me for directions. I got pretty close with the Texas Commission on the Arts. The City of Austin always pitched in a little bit, not too much. The Texas Commission on the Arts started being pretty generous, and actually gave me an Artist in Residence position that I could apply out of school. So anyways that’s how some of those things got done. The ceiling, by the way, like I said, was not finished. I threw a tantrum one day. I went there, and I had the scaffold on the side. I was doing this for cheap, you know, like really cheap. And like 300 kids had already painted on it. There's pictures somewhere, but my home burned, with my studio and home and everything. We had moved out into the country in Bastrop County. I was commuting back and forth to Austin. We were part of the wildfires of 2011, so I lost all those pictures and things. UT, by the way, has my archives, and they've lost them. They have like two articles, and one sheet of slides, and that's it. I gave them a stack of newspapers, letters, papers, pictures, all kind of stuff. They’ve been misplaced at the Perry Castaneda Library in the archives, so anyways they're gone. They’re there somewhere, but they can’t find them. But anyway, I didn’t finish it because one day I got there and the scaffold was torn down. I said, “Wait a minute, who took the scaffold down? I was going to work today.” I had put it over in the corner out of the way, put yellow ribbon on it. The kids were very good; they didn’t climb on it or do anything. So anyway, I would put it up, then roll it over to the side out of the way, and like I said put yellow ribbon around it. But one day I got there and it was taken down. They said, “Oh yeah, the president of the PTA took it down because they were having a meeting.” So what? It wasn’t in the way, necessarily. So I put it back up and I started working again, got the kids over here, started working on it again. And then I came back a second time and it was taken down again. They said, “Oh yeah the PTA guy came by and took it down.” So anyway, long story short, the third time he took it down, I said “oh man. This isn’t right.” So anyway, I worked again—third time—put it up three times. Fourth time—I just packed it up and left. I said, “Nah, it’s too much, man.” I figured I was doing all this for cheap. I actually didn’t make too much money on that. They gave me some supplies money, some expense money, and that was it. 4 �But anyway, I loved doing it. It was a great thing working with the kids. I’m sure they still remember, because, like I said, I run into them every once and a while. So anyway, I never did finish it. I said, “Man what kind of appreciation is that?” Not that I do it for appreciation, I’m not saying that. But to take it down three times? I told the principal, “Tell him to leave it up.” It’s not in the way. Kids aren’t climbing on it; they’re not messing with it. They’re actually being really good and respectful about it. So anyway, that’s a short story about that. All those planets were supposed to be painted. It was like to be a learning prop. A learning tool, reference. I’m supposed to be an educator too. I taught college for 12 years. I did 4 years at UT, by the way, at the International Office, working with Iraqi students. It was a State Department project, sponsored by the State Department and UT. Anyway, it was on social justice and creative activism, the class that I did there. But I taught at ACC for 12 years. I’m not much of an educator, you know. I’m not much of an artist either. I’m kind of like a very little of each, so I try to be complete by doing as many things as I can, because I’ve got too many interests. Anyway, I’m rambling, so how about another question? Burniston: ​Yes, thank you, that was all really fascinating, and I’m so sorry to hear that about them taking down your scaffolds for the mural. Prakash: ​This is all very fascinating. I actually did a mini project in class about the Aztec/Cobra Mural Exchange, and I had no idea that the one in the school was actually painted by Sanchez. I think we have a couple more questions. Valdez: ​Have you seen the booklet? The little booklet? Burniston: ​Yes, so we have that all scanned— Valdez: ​I did that, by the way. Oh I need to have that! I’d like to print another one, because I’ve got two copies, but I’d like to have some that I can give away, because I printed so many. Burniston: ​Definitely. Valdez: ​I did get a grant for doing that project. I actually had enough money to put together the booklet on InDesign. It was the first publication I ever did, in terms of a little booklet like that. I found some other artists that I invited to be part of it. I think it was a beautiful project. I remember we did some press work on it, and nobody showed up, no press at all. But I thought it was such a great idea. It should’ve been covered. People should’ve found out about it. And thanks for doing the presentation, by the way. 5 �Burniston: ​So that booklet will actually be featured in our exhibit on the arts. We made it into PDF form, so it can all be online. When our archive launches tomorrow, you should be able to access it, and we’ll definitely credit you. Valdez: ​This should tell you a lot about my work, and why I do it, and how it’s done. Like, my murals aren’t signed. I don’t have my name on them. Neither is that booklet. My name isn’t on it at all, and I did the whole thing. It’s not about me, and that’s the important thing that I teach kids when they work with me. I said, “First thing you gotta remember is it’s not about me. It’s not about you individually, it’s about all of us, because we’ve got to work together, and we’ve got to cooperate. You’ll see that if it’s something that you can’t do, somebody else can. We all pitch in. What we can do best, that’s what we throw into this. And it’s not about me.” So anyway, I’ve practiced that so anyway, I practiced that, you know, since the 70s, and I don't sign my murals, even when they are mine. Maybe I'll start this year. I’m working on one now. Burniston​: So, you talked a little bit about your process and how you survey the community and create the mural based on community input and everything, so I'd be curious to hear a little bit more about what that process was like with elementary school students, and sort of how they came up with the theme for this mural and the different layouts of them. Valdez:​ Well, I'll tell you what I'm always surprised—it's not always, not anymore. But I remember being surprised that they came up with some brilliant ideas, you know. I'm always impressed. I've always been impressed by that great idea they come up with. And like I said, third graders always beat out the fifth graders. The fifth graders are already getting a little bit loose and distracted with stuff, you know, and third graders, I found that they focus a little bit more, you know. And so anyway, and process, by the way, is the main thing. It's the final product.The mural itself is not as good as what the process was. And that same practice of, you know, completing something cooperatively. And kids always get along and behave themselves when they work with me, which is not an easy thing to say, but it's the truth, you know, they actually want to work. And sometimes I pulled from classes and I go, “OK, who's going to be working now?” And the teacher decides, or the kids, or everybody raises their hands, and they come along with me. So they're all willing to work and behave themselves and they want to come and do the right thing. So I've had very good luck with that kind of attitude. Their attitude is always good. Teachers tell me, I tell them all these guys were great, especially this person here, “what that kid, man, that kid can't even stand still in class. You know, I mean, he's always, you know, or or she's always jumping on top of her 6 �desk or doing something.” And so, anyway, I've had a lot of good luck with that kind of stuff, with the cooperative behavior, you know, and and actually learning. And I also incorporate science and a little bit of math. Applied mathematics in measuring and dividing up the space. I give them a very simplistic or simple application of the golden mean that the Greeks came up with as far as having measurement that applied to nature. And so anyway, that's how things are measured and composed. And the composition itself is just devised like that with mathematics. And then of course, they do the history and they go to the library and do the research and history, math, science, anything, whatever, you know. And of course, when they give me these ideas that they want to paint about, I go, “OK, well, what do you know about it?” And said, “well, I know this, but not too much.” They go to the library and go find the librarian for help. And sure enough, you know. So anyway. That's the process that I'm talking about, because the final product is nothing compared to what the process was, and kids are actually proud, you know, because they know who they are. All of a sudden. Or at least have a good idea, a better idea of what they had for. Burniston​: Thank you for sharing that with us. It’s all really fascinating and it's great to hear more about that process. One little logistical question I wanted to ask you is in our exhibit, we're referring to your different murals, like the ceiling mural. Is there a specific name you would like us to refer to it as? Valdez: ​You know what, I don't think we ever named it. It was going to be something like Cosmic something or I can't remember. Kids were talking about the cosmos or something when they decided to and I think that came up. Well, I mean, I can go on a lot. I was thinking of something about when I forgot what I was going to say. I make all these points sometimes and sometimes I forget them. Burniston: ​Feel free to always shoot me another email if there's something else, or if there’s something that we didn’t cover that’s important. Valdez: ​I could even send you an email or something, but yeah, that'll be great if I get it, get another. It's something I left out because there's plenty I can leave out. I actually do seminars for four or five hours sometimes. And so anyway, I put out a lot of information, probably partly miscalculated and not that accurate, but anyway, I put it out there anyway, whether it's true or not, I don't know. But I've been learning. You know what? That's the most important thing. I tell you what I'm learning from you know, you're not hearing anything and all that. I am convinced that I really am because it's true. It's always good when you teach. 7 �You learn that when you learn the most. And I found that out teaching college to you know, it's you teaching say, oh, wait a minute, I did learn something when they taught it to me. I didn't pay attention, but now I'm teaching it and I gotta pay attention and learn it. But they say “if you can't do, you teach.” And so anyway, ah, I've been lucky that I've been able to do and teach, and I make a living doing art, and actually did quite well for a while, but I actually wanted to teach it. So I called a friend of mine and they hooked me up and I started doing the gig at ACC back in, ooh, a long time ago. Back in eighty something, eighty eight or eighty nine. And I taught there for about 12 years. I think till about two thousand nineteen ninety nine, something like that. Burniston: ​Well, thank you so much. I think we've learned a lot, and I think we've pretty much covered all of our questions. Definitely shoot me an email if there's anything else you'd like to add. Valdez: ​It means a lot that somebody is curious and wants to know more about all these things, especially since it's getting destroyed. No matter how hard we struggled, and how many marches we had, and how many “defend our schools” and “save our schools,” and all this other stuff, and working with the kids. This kind of stuff still gets, you know, stepped on and thrown out the window. Look at Metz, for example. It’s not in that bad of a shape, that that could still serve as a school for many more years. Maybe they should have left the old school and called it historic, what was it like a hundred and five years old or how many? They should have just remodeled. They should have left it and remodeled it and not do a new one and declare it historic. I think Zavala is going to get away with doing that. But anyway. Gentrification. That’s what it is. It’s the other word. It starts with a G too. Greed. All that greed, that’s what’s happening. Same thing. Prakah: ​The more that we that we learn about Metz, I think the more nostalgic we get. And, you know, we've only been working with this information for a semester. And so it's so hard to imagine the individuals that have been involved with Metz for so long, almost a lifetime. You know, that nostalgia is there and the sadness that comes with having to get rid of such a historic building. Valdez: ​Yeah, it's truly sad. I, for one, worked there since the 70s, not on a regular basis, but I go back and forth, you know, and do projects with the kids and classrooms, and the presentations, and play the guitar. Do a little Jimi Hendrix, of course. No, I didn't do that. But anyway, I used to when I was a kid. 8 �But yeah, and well, of course. Sanchez was something else. You know that school. They kind of stripped the culture from it. You know, this was a very cultural site. You know, they had a great library. I mean, great exhibit in the library and a lot of, you know, “​alebrijes​”?​ You know, those figures that they make in Mexico that they decorate like little animals and big animals and all that with a lot of painting, a lot of little designs. And they had a lot of pottery and things that were pretty special, special stuff, very cultural. And of course, the murals and all that; we had several in there. Anyway, they've taken all that out. Just stripped it and made it pretty sterile. They’re going to leave my mural up, by the way, because they were going to take it down and they told me, “come get it because we're going to get rid of it.” I don't know if you're familiar with the mural that was in the library. According to one of the dudes that was working on it—I don't know if he's an architect or just one of the contractors—he told me that “we actually redesigned the school to accommodate your mural because a lot of people were up in arms, you know, complaining about it and saying that they had to save it, they couldn't get rid of it and all that.” I was going to take it and put it in storage, you know, because it's not easy to put something that big up anywhere. I don't know where I could put it. But anyway, I think we're getting off topic here and you've got to focus on Metz. Burniston: ​You know, I'm so glad to hear that they're preserving that mural in Sanchez. I know Rishika and I are really looking forward to typing up some of our notes and finishing up our exhibit. Like I said, it should launch tomorrow. We can definitely send you the link as soon as it does. And if there's any alterations or things we’ve misrepresented in our write ups, please don't hesitate to shoot me an email or you should have Rishika’s email as well. But we've really enjoyed talking to you and thank you so much for making the time. Valdez: ​OK, if that happens, I'll just show up with picket signs. Yeah, I like that one. I've been doing that for so many years so maybe that'll be the way I get the message across. I'm just kidding. Thank you very much. Prakash: ​Thank you so much. Burniston: ​Thank you very much. Valdez​: Appreciate it. 9 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rishika Prakah, Mary Margaret Burniston Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Raul Valdez Location The location of the interview Zoom Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 12/ 7/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Raul Valdez Oral History Transcript Subject The topic of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Oral history with Raul Valdez Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mary Margaret Burniston, and Rishika Prakash Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/7/2020 art arte oral history raul valdez